"Cherry Hill firefighter Mark Scian, who complained to the governor that police and firefighter unions have sacrificed more in salary and benefits than other public employees." //// And at what age does this guy get to retire? And with what multi-decade gold plated benefit package?

They need to sacrifice more. When will the public sector unions realized the well is dry? How can we afford their gold plated healthcare benefits and retirement benefits when we cannot even get them? How high do our taxes have to go? Mine have doubled in the last 13 years. I used to get a check from the state at income tax time, now I owe money.

Who willingly walks into a burning building to save lives? Do you want these men and women firefighters to make minimum wage so they can't support their families? Historically speaking fire fighters die 10 years on the average after retirement. We get what we pay for. I personally respect their hard work and dedication. Let's not forget 911. We should be asking congress and the senate to give back or the banks that we bailed out

A thrillseeker? A reasonable wage with them contributing to their heathcare and retirement would be nice, instead of the cadillac plans they now enjoy. So they die around 50, 55? Should I get to retire after 20 yeas and get 40 percent of my base pay and full medical. I mean I work hard and am dedicated. I didnt see any Cherry Hill FD trucks at Ground Zero. And we did get the money back from the banks.

Gov. Christie would get a lot more respect from the people of New Jersey if he
learned one lesson. You get more with honey than you do with vinegar.
What a rude, self serving, arrogant man.

This man has no compassion for anything but his gut. He is a disgusting site to be leading the State of New Jersey. His gluttony is going to shorten his life, but he is too arrogant to even lose weight for his health and the future of his family. He needs to learn how to listen to people, and he needs to learn how to respond even to those with home he disagrees in an intelligent manner rather than his usual mantra: "It is none of your business." He sounds like a spoiled brat rather than a governor.

"When will the public sector unions realized the well is dry?" "I mean I work hard and am dedicated." EXACTLY Kevin!!!
That's why they don't like Christie, because he's trying to make them realize. Who is anyone to say in these times that their jobs are more important, that their families get to receive better than the rest of us. I am sick of their complaining. My husband and i work FT, ALL YEAR, ALL DAY long (unlike teachers & others in the public sector), with children to support. We HAVE to pay for insurance and DONT get pension and free healthcare for each other until the day we die like some others. The citizens are tired of hearing how hard it is for teachers when the majority of us have it WAY HARDER! Suck it up like the rest of us....you and your family are NO more important than the rest of us so get over it!!!

Believe me, i appreciate teachers and there are good teachers out there...but i don't think it's right how some complain all the time about what they aren't getting when they get MORE than the rest of us!

From the comments here seems like private sector folks can complain as well as anyone else.

Mel - is that really all you have for a defense? Why not address the fact that public sector employees don't deserve more than anyone else? I bet you voted for our current pres and think he is doing a bang-up job for our country who now has a skyrocketing unemployment rate. Which by the way wasn't in his campaign speech. We are tired of it and YES, I will finally will complain NOW....the public sector employees have given me PLENTY of pointers over the years on how to do that well.

What a joke, what a pathetic joke of a governor this man is. I had to laugh when I heard him talking about how important tourism is in NJ. Here is a governor who took the money we pay him and spent his tourism dollars in Florida. Now, I'm sure the citizens of Florida thank him, but as far as me I haven't seen i more dollar in my wallet. The only people in NJ that should thank him are the wealthy. He' a fraud and a hustler. I see him as the ultimate carnival con man.

I'd like to commend the governor for a job well done so far. We need to crush or ban public worker unions. Its as simple as that. They are destroying this state.

the governor boldly LIED in his campaign promises to gain votes..... nothing he says or stands for can be trusted..... shared sacrifice is a metaphor for "stick it to the middle class"....... belt tightening needs to take place across the board, and for those of you grumbling about public workers..... why don't you make a career switch??? you can easily become a cushy firefighter or a lazy teacher too!!!

This argument of public vs. private is a shell game. In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers) - also know as the disappearing middle class.

The top 1% love that we argue amongst ourselves about who is to blame. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

In 1979 the American worker's average hourly wage was equal to $15.91 (adjusted for inflation in 2001 dollars). By 1989 it had reached only $16.63/hour. That's a gain of only 7 cents a year for the entire Reagan decade.

But wait. Things get worse! By 1995 it had risen to only $16.71, or virtually no gain whatsoever over the 6 years between 1989 and 1995. During the great 'boom years' between 1995 and 2000 it rose briefly to $18.33 per hour. In other words, from 1979 to 2000, even before the most recent recession, after more than two decades the American worker's average wages increased on average only 11.5 cents per hour per year! With nearly all of that coming in the five so-called 'boom' years of 1995-2000, and most of that lost once again in the last three years. And that includes for all workers, even those with college degrees.

The picture is worse for workers who had no college degree. That's more than 100 million workers, or 72.1% of the workforce. For them there was no 'boom of 1995-2000' whatsoever.

Their average real hourly wages were less at the end of 2000 than they were in 1979! And since 2000 their wages have continued to slide further.

The problem is that our country has been lulled to sleep over decades of hearing that government workers are dedicated and low paid public servants who trade good pay for security. And every time a union pay debate came up, it seemed like only cops and fire fighters and teachers were mentioned. No one stopped to think that most government workers are actually bureaucratic charmers like those we see at the DMV and other government offices -- and not "heroic teachers" or crime fighters. But as long as the private sector was humming along, there was no reason for reality to permeate that myth in most peoples' minds. But the reality is that government workers long ago passed private sector workers in pay and benefits, and now the compensation is more like 150% or even double, factoring in all the benefits, including more vacation days than private sector workers enjoy. And of course, the inestimable value of job security remains intact and strengthened -- while all of us in the private sector deal daily with the risk-reward constraints of reality that are only getting riskier. And along the way -- with a public school teacher-educated population that understands virtually nothing about economics -- the sheer idiocy of the concept of government unions escaped almost everybody. It's almost as if the union teachers were lying to their students about economics on purpose.

Consider: Unions exist primarily for the function of collective bargaining, where the union bosses will negotiate on behalf of all the workers with the management of a company over pay and benefits and other conditions. This built-in adversarial relationship along with the realities of a limited resource -- known as operating revenues -- do a pretty good job for the most part of keeping contracts in line.
The union bosses represent the workers. Management represents everybody else, including the stockholders, vendors, customers and potential customers of the company. In other words, management represents everyone whose interests are served by keeping payroll costs down.
In the case of a government workforce, those whose interests are served by keeping costs down would include all who pay taxes and fees to said government. In other words, the universe of folks represented by management is far larger than that represented by the union. This inherent tension is the invisible hand of reality that keeps collective bargaining in line. However, public sector "collective bargaining" is a bad joke, given that there are only chairs on one side of the bargaining table. The bigger universe of interested parties have zero representation in the process. There is no natural force working to keep costs in line.

Under any circumstances and in any economy, it is simply a matter of time before these costs reach a tipping point. We are at that time. There is simply no more money to give to these public sector unions -- period. And that is why we are seeing what we are seeing in Madison, WI and it is why we have seen the emergence of Chris Christie as a national phenomenon. And many welcome it. Things are finally so bad -- that they are good. And by good, this means that folks now cannot help but pay attention to the issue of public sector unions.
There is, as Charles Krauthammer said, a bit of an earthquake in the country. People are sensing that the nation is spinning off a cliff. And of course it is, and public sector unions are one huge reason why. This conclusion is inescapable. And when you understand that, you understand that public sector unions cannot be allowed to exist. If they are, we will never turn back from the cliff.

What people are forgetting when complaining about the public employees is that they took either low or no raises in the past inorder to get a better pension when they retire. Now the gov is taking away the pensions.

Yes, please tell us what your point is...Do you know how many years the rest of us have had no or little raises??? And we pay for our health insurance. Nice try but how about addressing the other issues stated above instead of picking something totally ridiculous to post.

Renata you are very well versed, but unfortunately you like many others had been fooled by the politicians and special interest groups who want you to blame the teachers, police officers, and firefighters. The state and countries debt is not because of the public sector employees , its due to poor and wasteful decisions with tax dollars and due to the fact that politicians local to federal allow greed to cloud their decisions.

Ms. Renata - you stated earlier "And along the way -- with a public school teacher-educated population that understands virtually nothing about economics" ---but you conveniently left out the fact that while some public unions have bargained over their benefits, unions cannot make those bargains happen without management approval. After all, the government, not the union, is the source of the benefit. This argument—that unionized public servants are overpaid—thus shifts the burden of the government‟s mismanagement of its financial affairs onto the union.

Recall, too, that these pension plans were relatively well-funded just a few years ago. Governor Christie's argument therefore also shifts the blame of underfunded liabilities onto public-sector unions; yet, those responsible for the 2008 financial crisis (mostly private-sector financial institutions) are ultimately responsible for creating these underfunded liabilities. Public Education - Econ 101.

"When the unions are sitting on one side of the bargaining table throwing millions of dollars at the politicians sitting on he other side, the unions usually get what they want."

Corporations and unions also make campaign contributions—expenditures that were not affected by the Supreme Court‟s decision in Citizens United. In the 2010 mid-term elections, unions spent a total of $96,574,695 on campaign contributions. Of this total, 68 percent of the contributions ($65,317,751) were given to Democrats, and 5 percent ($4,487,222) were given to Republicans. Spending by unions in the 2010 cycle represented 5.1 percent of 2010 total contributions.

By contrast, businesses spent a grand total of $1,360,667,040 contributing to the 2010 cycle, representing 72.2 percent of total contributions. Of the total amount contributed by the business sector, 49 percent of business‟ total contributions ($660,255,869) went to Democrats and 46 percent ($626,397,324) went to Republicans. Although Republicans were able to make important in-roads in such rust-belt states as Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, they lost in close races in other important swing states, such as Colorado and West Virginia. Many attribute those losses to union campaigning.

This picture shows the incentives that various political groups have to shrink the amount available for political expenditure from the general treasuries of institutions, such as unions, which provide an opposing point of view to the voice of conservative groups. The incentive goes to the Republicans to shrink union treasuries available for political spending. One very effective way of accomplishing that goal is to weaken unions. If public-sector unions are weakened by Republican initiatives, then there will be little to no opposition in raising campaign funds in most elections.This picture also shows the incentives that those in political power in states with large public debt have to blame the public union as the cause of that debt. The story is written for them.

Rant on Renata-Neither will I defend myself (you know nothing about me) nor will i engage in mudslinging that is short on substance and adds little to starting the kind of constructive, respectful dialogue and debate necessary to address the economic and social issues facing this country.

Hi Ginger, you can't possibly think that Obama is a good president can you? But if somehow you do, what has he done to help america? Should someone else run against him? Anyone in the Republican Party you would support for prez?

Mitt Romney is someone I would consider but if the choice was between Michelle Bachman and the current president.... Mr. Obama has my vote! I dont like anything her! That said, I am not interested in having a personal discussion here. I am interested in the issues that face Moorestown and debating ideas and solutions to solve them... from no matter where they come, as long as they are civil and sincere.

Some of you are right. The problems came from the previous state legislatures and governors. They kept signing off on this pensions and has put economic hardships to NJ. Gov. Christie has put his foot down and said NO! He has done a number of good things. And so you hear of some parents who have children with complex medical problems as well as Autism or Down Syndrome and there isn't anything available for them, not because of Christie, but because these pensions have just drained out state's economy. It appears only the very poor or "welfare" children have some coverage. If anyone has a job, those children are vulnerable after their medical benefits run out. We hear the state workers are even saying "Blame Christie" and that's shallow. Keep up the good job Gov. Christie! Some of those who are on this blog are smart enough to know its not your fault.

@Ginger: I hope you can take this with the respect it was intended.

While going door to door collecting signatures for pay to play reform, we ran into people of all political beliefs. The Republicans and Independents mostly complained about local issues. Many Democrats complained about feeling disheartened by President Obama as well. As a generalization they were giving him credit for what he walked into but felt disappointed in the choices he made to try and solve them and the apparent lack of a backbone and leadership with the debt ceiling compromise that had just been made.

I am not stating whether I agree with their opinions but wanted to relay to you what some I have spoken to about political reform are feeling. Many of them even told me they disagreed with what Governor Christie is doing but understands why he is doing and are glad to see some leadership. Again, just some observations from citizens in Gloucester Township.

I hope this gives you some perspective on why one man is getting a pass on what he inherited and another is not.

Not offended and on some level i agree but also feel there was no good solution. The option of default or drastic cuts would not have ultimately been popular either. Im just thinking that or president is in a lose lose. I do agree sometimes the best cho ice is the least popular as in our
Govenors case.

Here is a guy blaming every thing on public employees. Forget the chopper ballgame incident. He had to get a taxpayer limo because he's too lazy to walk 100 yards to the ball field from the helicopter. Give me a break. He is a do as I say not as I do governor.

Chris Christie is the man. I like how he told Mark Scian to buzz off. Hey Mark, if you're able to afford Cherry Hill's property tax you can't be doing too bad.

I would like to say I'm amazed at the ignorance of so many of these comments but I am not. Voter ignorance is our biggest problem! The remarks on this article are so ridiculous that I don't know where to start. First, Chris Christie; whether I agree with him or not, did not tell me to buzz off he discussed the issues like an adult which is more than I can say for your comments. And the last time I checked, the taxes in many South Jersey towns are very comparable and I pay them because it is my responsibility and I work to two jobs to assure the quality of life for my family. If you can't afford to pay your taxes, Work Harder! Obviously most of you don't know that there are many different retirement packages across NJ from FF's to teachers, to police to state employees. So to make a blanket statement about pensions such as being "Multi decade gold Plated" benefits package is again Ignorant!. I.E. a firefighter earns a pension only after at least 20 years(50%) without any lifetime health care Check to see what your legislatures earn in much less of time. Then tell me who takes advantage of the system. If you don't like the way the pension system exists, petition your legislature to change it for future employees. For the comment about "cushy firefighters" and "lazy teachers" almost doesn't deserve a response but my guess is that you neither strong enough or smart enough to do either!

! For the one who went to ground zero to take inventory of the fire apparatus to see who was there and who wasn't ....first of all how dare you tread in those waters when so many police and firemen died trying to save people that they didn't even know. Second, Cherry Hill Firefighter from Special operations DID respond and assit the many brave men and women who risked their lives to save as many people as possible at great risks to their own lives. Many firefighters who are fortunate enough to be able to serve their communities as their career were also volunteers for many years. The original question to the Gov. was why should Police and Fire pay 10% (from 8.5%) when other unions were only raised to 6.5 and then 7.5% over seven years. Their system is in better shape than all even after your politicians raiding the funds and not paying into it. So excuse us if we feel we are not being treated equitably. We have and continue to make personal and financial sacrifices at a local level and don't need the state hit us again! Instead of spending so much time on these blogs, investigate your facts, question the bills your politicians pass that exclude them, and work whatever job you chose because I worked long and hard to get my job and do so everyday (like all my brothers and sisters do) to keep my job. We are not your problem!

Moorestown fire fighters are all volunteers. Its a good thing these cowards can condem your job and judge your level of compensation under fake names. I pray they never find out just how valuable your services are! I have been sick to my stomach over the insensitive remarks and apologize on behalf of us who appreciate all that you sacrifice.

Thank you for your comments. I was a volunteer for over 15 years. I remember where I started and appreciate the need for volunteers. Most people just don't take the time to learn the facts. They only care when they think it affects them. The politicians are the ony ones talking so they just believe what they hear and obviously that is not a reliable source. thanks again.

The public employees and every American worker has the right to be upset with all of our elected officials at all levels. First let us look at the American worker your favorite Uncle Sam has more IOU's in the Social Security system than money owed to China. Therefore, American workers will be sacrifing future benefits because of this borrowing of our money. In the State of New Jersey, every Governor since Christie Whitman has balanced the state budget utilizing the pension system in one form or another. I mean they either borrowed directly or didn't make scheduled contributions. Somewhere around the late 1990's or early 2000's the New Jersey state pension system was funded at 104%. Our governor isn't and hasn't fixed anything. He has just yelled louder and longer that it is the government workers who are greedy. Actually, it is he and every other politician who has either raided a state pension system or the social security system who should be hanging their heads in shame. The politicians have broken pension systems across the country and the social security system and now they want you to believe that you and I did it. I understand why universally government employees are upset as should every American that has contributed to Social Security be.

Mark nice job on all your comments! Slim Jim as well....I would like to see legislation passed that makes it impossible for politicians to get their hands on pension plans to fund their projects. That has to be fixed ASAP. Cause if and when they every to get back to being funded properly you know they will be back with their hands out again. So not only do we need to fix the pension system, but we have to put a stop to the practice of politicians raiding them. I see so many older people who should be retired now working because of the devastation this economic crisis has caused our nation. It's wrong and we must do all we can to make sure it never happens again.

Sorry but to those that keep bashing with NO substance....According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics: The typical federal worker is paid 20% more than a private-sector worker in the same occupation. Federal employees earn higher average salaries than private-sector workers in more than eight out of 10 occupations.
These salary figures do NOT include the value of health, pension and other benefits, which averaged $40,785 per federal employee in 2008 vs. $9,882 per private worker, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.
Can YOU do the MATH??
If not here is another cold, hard FACT: The federal government spent about $224 BILLION in 2008 on compensation for about 2 million civilian employees. The data flips the conventional wisdom on its head. Federal workers make substantially more than private workers, NOT less, in addition to having a LARGE advantage in benefits. Average federal salaries exceed average private-sector pay in 83% of comparable occupations.
I don't know about you, but I am not going to be lied to anymore by those in the public sector. For those of you who want to keep on drinking the kool-aide, go for it...I don't expect to change your minds. I am simply trying to educate the rest who have been lied to over the years, as I have.
One last tip to those public sector employees who complain....PLEASE Stop...it's insulting. Would you think to complain to a cancer patient about a simple headache you are having? A little respect is all we ask.

i'm gonna get a gumment job

$77,000 to collect tolls on the turnpike?
http://php.app.com/njturnpike/details.php?recordID=511

Damn Haters hate .......Leaders Lead .............and crybabies blame everyone for there problem ....

I say leave the unions alone, don't raise taxes and let the State go bankrupt and then watch what happens when the courts allow the State to pay "pennies on the dollar" for all of their outstanding obligations, like pensions, force all contracts to be renegotiated and demand significant layoffs.

no no no i gonna interview for a gumment job tommorrow collect tolls for $77000 pay

you can bash on police and firefighters all you want but you still are the first ones to call when your the ones in need. It also sounds like there wouldnt be a need for paid firefighters if all the people on here that think the job is so easy would volunteer to be one. Everyone wants to complain about something that they would never do themselves.

Jesse, it's no surprise Renata won't share her full name... Sure hope that glass house she lives in is well insured. (actually I don't)